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Talk:Animal Species/Alabasta Saga
Island Whale If island whales come from the West Blue then why are they in the New World 15:05, January 28, 2012 (UTC) They come from west blue, but west blue is next to new world, so that means they travel across Calm Belt and Grand Line (new world) and possibly north blue. Where's the evidence that the New World is on the left side? SeaTerror 17:39, January 28, 2012 (UTC) SeaTerror's right. For all we know the pod traversed the Grand Line and made it to the New World that way. 21:22, January 28, 2012 (UTC) The evidence that the New World is on the left side is here. It's clear from the map that the first part of Grand Line borders EastBlue (where they come from, the X denotes Loguetown). That's right. I couldn't find a better picture, I'll add that one too on this page. Here a diagram of the one piece world, based on what we know (though it's in Italian). Basically the Red Line cut the world in two halves: the south-east one and the north-west one, Laboon came from west blue and now is stuck in the south-east one, while the other whales are in west blue and, as we seen, they don't seem to have problems crossing the grand line and calm belt (they are whales after all, not ships). If that was how it worked then anybody could directly sail from North or West blue to reach the New World if they had a Marine ship. SeaTerror 00:07, January 29, 2012 (UTC) Yes, I think for all we know, that's the case. What's the problem? Indeed, Marine ships can sail the Calm Belt like we have seen during Amazon Lily arc, but only a Marine ship, for a pirates is nearly impossible to do that. Remember that we are talking about whales, they don't care less if there isn't wind in Calm Belt and they are big like, if not bigger, then Sea Kings while moving in a pod Sea Kings are not much of threat. If that were the case then any pirate could steal a marine ship and just sail to the New World. That isn't how it works. SeaTerror 18:25, January 29, 2012 (UTC) Maybe it is how it works, but the New World weather prevents them from proceeding too much farther. I don't see how the whales being in the New World is that outlandish of a theory. 18:36, January 29, 2012 (UTC) What is that is not correct? The original topic was "why Island Whale where in the New World since they come from West Blue" correct? What we know is: * Form the maps revealed thus far, we know the disposition of the ocenas in the One Piece world (The oceans are in two halves of the world: East Blue - G.R.(Paradise) - South Blue and North Blue - G.R.(New World) - West Blue) * We know that Calm belts surround the Grand Line, and make it nearly impossible for ships cross them since there is no wind and it's full of Sea Kings * The only "safe" entrance know is Reverse Mountain * The only ship seen to be able safely cross the Calm Belts are Marine Ships and the Kuja's ship * Island whales are originally from West Blue. * Lavoon crossed Reverse Mountain when was a baby and now he is unable to return back * We have seen a pod of island whales in the beginning of the New World. Since island whales come from West Blue the fact that they were in the New World simply mean that they have traveled there from their birth place. I don't think I said something so unbelievable. SeaTerror.. Maybe some unknown pirate crews did.. Don't try to find logic in One Piece like that.. :Let's leave aside the theories of crossing the Calm Belt or how do you exit the Grand Line (otherwise this conversation won't end), we were talking about the whales. You realize the Grand Line would be around the entire world right? Not to mention if West Blue and North Blue were actually next to the New World then Hawkins and Bege would have entered the New World right away when entering the Grand Line. The most logical explanation is that the New World is actually on the other side of the globe. SeaTerror 18:56, January 29, 2012 (UTC) Is it so hard to fathom that they just swam up Reverse Mountain the way a normal ship does and entered the Grand Line that way? You guys are really overthinking this. 19:00, January 29, 2012 (UTC) Ok, so to simplify things, we have determined that somehow Island Whales entered the Grand Line through the Calm Belt. Since they came from the West Blue, then they entered the New World directly. Or if this is wrong, then they could have swum under the Red Line, considering there is a gigantic gaping hole there for Fishman Island. Any problems with this? 19:03, January 29, 2012 (UTC) How about we just say "They entered the Grand Line", then people can fit the pieces together which ever way they want. 19:06, January 29, 2012 (UTC) * What's this about Hawkins entering directly in the new world? The only way a pirate ship has to enter Grand Line is through Reverse Mountain, and I remind you that no matter which blue you enter the only exit is twin capes. * Then which are the blues next to New World? You can see in the maps above. * @Pacifista: the second option it's not possible since Usopp said in chapter 654 that Lavoon couldn't pass through F.I. hole in the Grand Line due his huge body. * @DP: I think there is only one fit, I don't understand the problem at all... saying that west blue is next to Paradise is wrong. (they couldn't enter in paradise and make it to the New World for the same reason I said above). Does it really matter which blue is next to what? As for it being impossible for island whales to enter the New World, yes, it is impossible, when they're fully grown. When Laboon was with Brook he was roughly the size of a small horse or large dog. So, would it really be impossible for young island whales to get through the crack? We're talking 50+ years of growth here. The whales could easily swim through the crack at that size. 19:21, January 29, 2012 (UTC) Wait, the problem is that there is no problem at all! I was just answering ST... what are we discussing on? Is the sentence "A large pod of island whales was seen right at the beginning in the New World, indicating that they travel across the Calm Belt and the Grand Line from West Blue."? Then even if you said was true (which is arguable) this sentence is still true, isn't it? I added in the beginning simply because people copied added Island Whales in the New World Saga's tab. Oda gave us 4 maps about how it works, don't try to play Oda and figure out if the whales were big enough or not to pass.. They just did. Leave that aside. No reason to overthink it.. :Who are you talking to? And I'm not playing Oda, about the fact the hole was too small I didn't say it, he was Usopp in chapter 654, I simply said that they don't have to pass it in the first place since they are on the other half to begin with. I think you guys are overthinking. Which is why I said to just put "at one point they entered the Grand Line". Everybody thinks they went over Reverse Mountain because Brook instantly assumed that they were part of Laboon's pod. 19:35, January 29, 2012 (UTC) :It should "at one point they entered the New World" then, which is simpler, but isn't what it's already written? What's wrong is to say the New World is next to North and West Blue. There is no evidence for it. If that was how it worked then reverse mountain would enter the New World at those particular entrances. SeaTerror 20:41, January 29, 2012 (UTC) No wait, this is a fact, as you can see by the maps above and Reverse Mountain has 4 entrances, one for each blue, which all exit at Twin Capes. This was cleared up long ago. It is clear that North Blue is actually on the other side of the Red Line compared to East Blue so it is divided by the Calm Belt to the Grand Line in the New World. The Island Whales are so freaking big that they can fight off Sea Kings, don't you think? It is plausible if you think about it. But you could simply wait for for the next chapter, I imagine that oda would explain what happened if he doesn't want to confuse us too much. No it is not fact and it was NEVER cleared up before. SeaTerror 21:09, January 29, 2012 (UTC) I don't think we should discuss this on the animal talk page, but whatever... you are clearly misunderstood something then, first what's your idea on the One Piece world? Like where are the blues? I don't understand how you cannot tell from the maps above... the red line cut the world in two sea-halves ok? Then the grand line runs perpendicularly to the red line, so it cuts those two halves in four sea: on one half you have south and east blue and on the other one you have west and north blue. Now if you look at the map of reverse mountain you have Paradise on the right (since there, there is the exit) and the new world on the left (next to the mountain on the right, there should be Raftel), for reference Fishman Island would be on the antipodes of Reverse Mountain. Now in the map the Est Blue is top-right (the x mark loguetown) hence the bottom right is the south blue (the south blue is in front of east blue beyond the grand line) and consequentially north and west blue are on the left side, next to the new World. There can't be other options. Maybe the sea names are misleading. Yet you failed to have read my comment about how Hawkins and Bege would have entered the Grand Line. If they had entered from those seas and that the New World is on that side of the map then that means Reverse Mountain leads directly to it. If they had entered the Grand Line from Reverse Mountain that way, then that means they would have traveled through the East Blue side of the Grand Line. The ONLY logical explanation is that the New World is on the other side of the globe and you get there after going through the Grand Line and Fishman Island. SeaTerror 22:08, January 29, 2012 (UTC) You still misunderstand how : if, as you said, they would have entered directly in the New World than the Straw Hats would have entered the New World too, since there is ONE reverse mountain in the world and all its channel have the SAME exit, so it's either all the roads lead to new world or Twin Capes, it's obviously the latter. The Grand Line meets the Red Line in two points: R.M. and F.I, starting from R.M to F.I there is Paradise, which is half of the Grand Line (half world-round), then from F.I. to R.M.'s back is New World which is the second half, at the end of it there is (supposed to be) raftel which is behind reverse mountain since the world is a globe. When I say that on the left of reverse mountain there is the new world I mean that there is the END of the new world (in a sphere if you make a complete round across the world you'll arrive at the starting point). If you still have doubts then let me ask: what is there at the behind of Reverse Mountain's exit? These diagrams and this map maybe will help. Also think about Brook dreams: isn't it make travel around the world and returning to Lavoon? :It's clear from this picture. You posted the same non-canon pic three friggin times, we get it. SeaTerror wasn't talking about the entrance from Reverse Mountain. He was talking about entering the New World from the Calm Belt, which is a theoretical possibility on a Marine ship. He's saying that if a pirate from West Blue jacked a Marine ship, then there would be no point for them to go through Reverse Mountain since they could just enter the New World directly by cutting through the Calm Belt. 23:02, January 29, 2012 (UTC) That is entirely possible. They would just get destroyed in the New World. Anyways, why the hell does this matter? We have determined that the whales could have crossed the Calm Belt from the West Blue, and be in the Grand Line. I just don't see what is so hard to get about that. 23:07, January 29, 2012 (UTC) Because apparently some people have become overnight experts in whale migration patterns and want something a little more concrete than either/or. 23:14, January 29, 2012 (UTC) Aside from the diagram, all pictures here all canons (they can be found in the manga). Well sorry if I spammed the page, but if I left the matter as it was, it would have looks like there are doubts, which there aren't. For Marine ships in fact can theoretically go from west blue to new world, or from east blue to grand line, but hijacking one would be basically a suicide, remember that in Grand Line you still have to follow the Log Pose, so since you cut through calm belt you didn't recorded any island then you would aimless travel in the grand line. I guess the marines use eternal poses for that. And by Luffy's words "It's cooler getting in the Grand Line through the entrance", furthermore what kind of pirate would ever take a shortcut? Sorry again for being the bad guy here, but to me the matter was clear from the beginning. If there are still doubts I guess we should take this to a forum. I didn't say it was the perfect plan or the most practical, just that it could be done. 23:42, January 29, 2012 (UTC) You're not getting it so I took the most basic map and edited it. http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4337/map2l.jpg Where the red is marked you are saying that is the New World. So if that was the case then Hawkins and Bege would have entered the Grand Line where the New World is. SeaTerror 07:47, January 30, 2012 (UTC) I moved the discussion to Forum:One Piece World since the topic drifted from the article subject.